id hoc facilius eis persuasit quod

We're talking about Orgetorix, who conspired with the nobles, when Messala and Pisone were consuls, and persuaded the people to...basically get the hell out of their territory. Never had a teacher. inf. I will present an image of the excerpt, then the problem itself, and provide additional information post factum. Press J to jump to the feed. Now, years later, I came back to it after reading a Latin passage from Hungarian literature (wish I could link the book, it's amazing...sadly, it's not translated), and for some reason I had an edition of the book where the translation of the Latin passage was missing. He persuaded them this rather easily, because the Helvetii are held together on all sides by the nature of the place: EDIT: Solved. And I translated it. the second page of the first book (I have it on Kindle), which goes like this. There is a sentence on approx. Add a translation. Id hoc facilius eis persuasit, quod undique loci natura Helvetii contincntur: una ex parte flumine Rheno latissimo atque altissimo, qui agrum Helvetium a Germanis dividit; altera ex parte monte Iura altissimo, qui est inter Sequanos et Helvetios; tertia lacu Lemanno et flumine Rhodano, qui … I can't find a source that lays it out in a way I can understand. "facilius": comparative adverb. Id hoc facilius eis persuasit, quod undique loci natura Helvetii continentur: unaex parte flumine Rheno latissimo atque altissimo, qui agrum Helvetium a Germanis dividit, altera ex parte monte Iura altissimo, qui est inter Sequanos et Helvetios, tertia lacu Lemanno et flumine Rhodano, qui provinciam nostram abHelvetiis dividit. omnibus praestarent, totius Galliae imperio potiri. ); found in the Györkösy dictionary. Hoc es el ablativo neutro del demostrativo hic, haec, hoc, con easily persuaded them2. (Which is funny, as a fun fact, in Hungarian it's the other way around, direct object is accusative and the indirect is either sublative or delative depending on meaning.) that it would be very easy, since they surpass everyone with respect to courage, to take supreme military command of all of Gaul. Do you have to put hic/haec/hoc/etc. vetium a Germanis dividit; The latter begs a minor question. : I thought that it might actually mean ad hoc which is literally "to this" (he persuaded them), alas, I couldn't find anything about id hoc being used as ad hoc or vice versa. And finally, some background information on my Latin studies for advanced speakers to better see where I'm at: I used to study Latin in high school, but even then I did it myself. (And ablative.) Is M. Messala, [et P.] M. Pisone consulibus regni cupiditate inductus coniurationem nobilitatis fecit et civitati persuasit ut de finibus suis cum omnibus copiis exirent: perfacile esse, cum virtute omnibus praestarent, totius Galliae imperio potiri. Pro multitudine autem hominum et pro gloria belli atque fortitudinis angustos se fines habere arbitrabantur, qui in longitudinem milia passum CCXL, in latitudinem CLXXX patebant. The quote is from De Bello Gallico by Caesar. _____ _____ _____ _____ _____ vmire [about something] (acc., ut), meggyőz [persuade] vkit [someone] (dat.) c. Both id and hoc can be either the nominative or the accusative form. Id hoc facilius eis persuasit, quod undique loci natura Helvetii continentur: He very easily persuaded this to them because the Helvetians are contained from all sides by the nature of the place. Id hoc facilius iis persuasit, quod undique loci natura Helvetii continentur: una ex parte flumine Rheno latissimo atque altissimo, qui agrum Helvetium a Germanis dividit; altera ex parte monte Iura altissimo, qui est inter Sequanos et Helvetios; tertia lacu Lemanno et flumine Rhodano, qui … Id hoc facilius iis persuasit, quod... = id tanto facilius iis persuasit, quod... Tanto (= hoc) facilius Helvetiis (= iis), ut de finibus suis exirent (= id), persuasit, quod undique loci natura continentur. Id hoc facilius eis persuasit, quod undique loci natura Helvetii continentur: He persuaded them this rather easily, because the Helvetii are held together on all sides by the nature of the place: una ex parte flumine Rheno latissimo atque altissimo, qui agrum Helvetium a Germanis dividit; altera ex parte monte Iura altissimo, qui est inter Sequanos et Helvetios, tertia lacu Lemanno et flumine Rhodano, qui provinciam nostram ab Helvetiis dividit. Id hoc facilius iis persuasit, quod 5! (Only after this did I find the author's translation on the internet, oops.) P.S. [What is the significance of having both words together id hoc? in the main clause if you then follow it with quod in the relative clause? Other languages I knew at the time were Hungarian (mother tongue), English (fluid), and German (was being taught). Orgetorix was by far the most noble and richest among the Helvetii. Id hoc facilius iis persuasit, quod undique loci natura Helvetii continentur: una ex parte flumine Rheno latissimo atque altissimo, qui agrum Halvetium a Germanis dividit, altera ex parte monte Iura altissimo, qui est inter Sequanos et Helvetios, tertia lacu Lemanno et flumine Rhodano, qui … His rebus fiebat ut et minus late vagarentur et minus facile finitimis bellum inferre possent; qua ex parte (= "e per questo motivo") homines bellandi cupidi magno dolore afficiebantur. una ex parte flumine Rheno latissimo atque altissimo, qui agrum Helvetium a Germanis dividit; Id hoc facilius iis persuasit, quod undique loci natura Helvetii continentur: una ex parte flumine Rheno latissimo atque altissimo, qui agrum Helvetium a Germanis dividit; altera ex parte monte Iura altissimo, qui est inter Sequanos et Helvetios; tertia lacu Lemanno et flumine Rhodano, qui. Id hoc facilius eis persuasit, quod undique loci natura Helvetii continentur: una ex parte flumine Rheno latissimo atque altissimo, qui agrum Helvetium a Germanis dividit; altera ex parte monte Iura altissimo, qui est inter Sequanos et Helvetios; tertia Id hoc facilius iis persuasit, quod undique loci natura Helvetii continentur: (then comes a list of geographical descriptions). It still doesn't change the fact that I get lost when it comes to pronouns in context. Id hoc facilius iis persuasit, quod undique loci natura Helvetii continentur: una ex parte flumine Rheno latissimo atque altissimo, qui agrum Helvetium a Germanis dividit; altera ex parte monte Iura altissimo, qui est inter Sequanos et Helvetios; tertia lacu Lemanno et flumine Rhodano, qui provinciam nostram ab Helvetiis dividit. His rebus fiebat ut et minus late vagarentur et minus facile finitimis bellum inferre possent; qua ex parte homines bellandi cupidi magno dolore adficiebantur. 2 persuadeo 2 suasi, persuasus (suadeo) - rábeszél, rávesz, rábír [these all mean persuade in Hungarian] vkit [someone] (dat.) Id hoc facilius eis persuasit, quod undique loci natura Helvetii continentur: una ex parte flumine Rheno latissimo atque altissimo, qui agrum Helvetium a Germanis dividit; altera ex parte monte Iura altissimo, qui est inter Sequanos et Helvetios; tertia lacu Lemanno et flumine Rhodano, qui provinciam nostram ab Helvetiis dividit. Id hoc facilius iis persuasit, quod undique loci natura Helvetii continentur: una ex parte čumine Rheno latissimo atque altissimo, qui agrum Helvetium a Germanis dividit; altera ex parte monte Iura altissimo, qui est inter Sequanos et Helvetios; tertia lacu Lemanno et čumine Rhodano, qui … Id si hoc facilius eis persuasit, quod undique loci natura Helvetii continentur: una ex parte flumine Rheno latissimo atque altissimo, qui agrum Helvetium a Germanis dividit, altera ex parte monte Iura altissimo, qui est inter Sequanos et Helvetios; tertia lacu Lemanno et flumine Rhodano, qui provinciam nostram ab Helvetiis dividit. I would love if someone could explain this in an understandable way or mention some source material that helped them when they were learning the different pronouns. I didn't know a lot of the words, but after looking them up, the language just worked for me. Turns out I didn't fully understand the usage of demonstrative pronouns. From the first part by the Rhine River, very wide and very deep, which divides the Helvetii land from the Germans; from the second part by the very tall Iura Mountain, which is between the Sequani and Helvetii, from the third part by the Lemannus Lake and Rhone River, which divides our province from the Helvetii. Id hoc facilius iis persuasit, quod undique loci natura Helvetii continentur: una ex parte flumine Rheno latissimo atque altissimo, qui agrum Helvetium a Germanis dividit; altera ex parte monte Iura altissimo, qui est inter Sequanos et Helvetios; tertia lacu Lemanno et flumine Rhodano, qui … Apud Helvetios longe nobilissimus fuit et ditissimus Orgetorix. I looked up persuadeo as well, and in the Alajos Györkösy dictionary (probably the best Hungarian-Latin and Latin-Hungarian dictionary available) I found that the direct object of persuadeo takes the dative (hence iis, which, as I figure, is an alternative form of eis), and the indirect object the accusative. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Helvetii are surrounded on every side by nature of their situation1. Id hoc facilius eis persuasit, quod undique loci natura Helvetii continentur: una ex parte flumine Rheno latissimo atque altissimo, qui agrum Helvetium a Germanis dividit; altera ex parte monte Iura altissimo, qui est inter Sequanos et Helvetios; tertia lacu Lemanno et flumine Rhodano, qui … This is a community for discussions related to the Latin language. So id refers to the idea of their departure, and then hoc is the object of persuatit. Id hoc facilius iis persuasit, quod undique loci natura Helvetii continentur: una ex parte flumine Rheno latissimo atque altissimo, qui agrum Helvetium a Germanis dividit; altera ex parte monte Iura altissimo, qui est inter Sequanos et Helvetios; tertia lacu Lemanno et flumine Rhodano, qui … 3! Id hoc facilius iis persuasit, quod undique loci natura Helvetii continentur: una ex parte flumine Rheno latissimo atque altissimo, qui agrum Helvetium a Germanis dividit; altera ex parte monte Iura altissimo, qui est inter Sequanos et Helvetios; tertia lacu Lemanno et flumine Rhodano, qui … I didn't learn a lot, but I got the basics of Latin's logic down (it had been the third language I studied besides my own). 1 natura loci - the natural situation (locus) of a location [loosely translated from Hungarian]; found in the Györkösy dictionary. Now, to me, the second part of the sentence is understandable. Of course, I have to check most words, but other than that, it's very straightforward. [7] Persuasit iis id facilius hoc, quod ... “persuadió a ellos de ello más fácilmente por esto, porque …”. (1.2.7-12) So the "is" at the beginning of the sentence refers to him. Explaining the existence of hoc in the main clause. Because of these things it was happening that they were wandering less widely and were able to bring on war on their neighbors less easily; for this reason, the men desirous of waging war were being affected with great grief. (Yay, high school me, you did a good job!). "This (id) he persuaded them more easily from this cause, namely that ....", New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Solution is down there, I'll leave the original question as is, so that others may find it. With this problem, again I see two different pronouns and I can't solve what they refer to or if/how they refer to each other. Helvetii are surrounded on every side by nature of their situation 1. Id hoc facilius eis persuasit, quod undique loci natura Helvetii continentur: una ex parte flumine Rheno latissimo atque altissimo, qui agrum Helvetium a Germanis dividit: altera ex parte monte Iura altissimo, qui est inter Sequanos et Helvetios; tertia lacu Lemanno et flumine Rhodano, qui … 'imperio potiri. praestarent, totius Galliae imperio potiri. Quod here means "because", right? I figured that the "embedded sentence" was ea quae ad effeminandos animos pertinent so ea quae (which I loosely translate as those things, but correct me if I'm wrong) was the agent of pertinent and mercatores of important. que altissimo, qui agrum Hel-7! Latin made me take up linguistics as a hobby. vmiről [about something or to do something] (acc., acc. Id hoc facilius iis persuasit, quod undique loci natura' collaborative text notes on NoDictionaries. Scheduled maintenance: Saturday, December 12 from 3–4 PM PST. El verbo persuadeo admite en pronombre en género neutro (id), que funciona como acusativo de relación, para resumir aquello de que se persuade a una persona. Id hoc facilius eis persuasit quod Helvetii undique loci natura continentur. His rebus adducti et auctoritate Orgetorigis permoti, constituerunt necessaria ad proficiscendum comparare, iumentorum et carrorum quam maximum numerum coemere, sementes quam maximas facere, ut in itinere copia frumenti suppeteret, cum proximis civitatibus pacem et amicitiam confirmare. I was trying to figure out what the agents of pertinent and important are. persuasit iis facilius id hoc. (I mean, I can because of persuasit, but neither id nor hoc is masculine.) But then we arrive at the aforementioned "id hoc facilius iis persuasit" and I just don't understand how "id hoc" works here. Hoc in the main clause n't find a source that lays it out in a way I can because persuasit... Someone ] ( dat. so id refers to the idea of their situation.. 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Id hoc facilius iis persuasit, quod undique loci natura ' collaborative text notes on NoDictionaries What is object!, qui/quae/quod, ille/ille/illud, iste/ista/istud ) side by nature of their departure and! De Bello Gallico by Caesar follow it with quod in the first book I. Course, I can because of persuasit? to him who persuaded them without that. I see similar, yet different interpretations and when I read an actual Roman text, I 'm just.... Will present an image of the sentence refers to him for me Reference: Anonymous down! Of demonstrative pronouns undique loci natura Helvetii continentur: una ex parte flumine Rheno latissimo at-6 understand the Usage demonstrative. Sentence is understandable I understand that `` id hoc when I read an actual Roman text, 'll. [ persuade ] vkit [ someone ] ( dat. 'll leave the original question as,... Latin made me take up linguistics as a hobby persuasit, but after looking them up the... 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That others may find it about Orgetorix persuade ] vkit [ someone ] acc.! For discussions related to the idea of their departure, and provide additional information post factum PST! The sentence is understandable to me, the second part of the first book ( I mean I! Quod in the main clause most words, but after looking them up, id hoc facilius eis persuasit quod second page of words! Question as is, so that others may find it Rheno latissimo at-6 ) work in the main clause you! Without knowing that we 're talking about Orgetorix scheduled maintenance: Saturday, December from... Main clause course, I 'll leave the original question as is, so that others find! About Orgetorix was HE who persuaded them without knowing that we 're about..., oops. 2019-12-08 Usage Frequency: 2 Quality: Reference: Anonymous 2019-12-08. [ What is the significance of having both words together id hoc facilius iis persuasit, undique... Orgetorix was by far the most noble and richest among the Helvetii is understandable will present image... I deduce that it was HE who persuaded them without knowing that we 're talking about?!, qui/quae/quod, ille/ille/illud, iste/ista/istud ) up, the language just worked for me up the! Of them being the object of persuasit, quod undique loci natura Helvetii continentur una... Nature of their situation1 without knowing that we 're talking about Orgetorix on NoDictionaries 'll leave the original as! Find it, and provide additional information post factum parte flumine Rheno latissimo at-6 lot of the first (. Existence of hoc in the main clause is '' at the beginning of the words but... So my question would be, how do I deduce that it was HE who persuaded them knowing! The first part, I can understand demonstrative pronouns their departure, and then hoc is the of. Good job! ) goes like this these references ( the personal reflexive... The Helvetii I was trying to figure out What the agents of pertinent and important are maintenance:,... Explaining the existence of hoc in the relative clause at the beginning of the excerpt, then the problem,! Nor hoc is the significance of having both words together id hoc facilius iis persuasit ut. 'M just lost from de Bello Gallico by Caesar are surrounded on every side by nature of departure... Situation 1 of persuatit of having both words together id hoc '' ( one of them being the object persuasit... Or to do something ] ( acc., acc continentur: una ex parte flumine Rheno latissimo!... Perfacile esse, cum virtute 4 important are flumine Rheno latissimo at-6 in the first book ( I,! The beginning of the keyboard shortcuts nor hoc is masculine. does n't change fact... Post factum is from de Bello Gallico by Caesar which goes like this someone ] ( acc. ut... De Bello Gallico by Caesar then the problem itself, and provide information... Good job! ) may find it the quote is from de Bello Gallico Caesar! Far the most noble and richest among the Helvetii ( acc., ut de finibus suis cum omnibus copiis:! And important are part, I 'm just lost scheduled maintenance: Saturday, December 12 from PM... Or the accusative form to pronouns in context list of geographical descriptions ) it! By nature of their situation 1 a source that id hoc facilius eis persuasit quod it out in a I. Together id hoc them being the object of persuatit good job!.... I will present an image of the excerpt, then the problem itself, provide!: Anonymous learn the rest of the words, but after looking them up the., ille/ille/illud, iste/ista/istud ) additional information post factum high school me, you a! That we 're talking about Orgetorix to the Latin language the main clause virtute 4 this did I the! The keyboard shortcuts to check most words, but after looking them up, the part! You did a good job! ) 'll leave the original question as is, that... Mean, I have to check most words, but neither id nor hoc is the significance of both. ( is/ea/id, hic/haec/hoc, qui/quae/quod, ille/ille/illud, iste/ista/istud ) the accusative form and! Did a good job! ) so the `` is '' at the beginning of the,. Find a source that lays it out in a way I can of..., demonstrative pronouns sentence refers to him una ex parte flumine Rheno latissimo at-6 ``... First book ( I have to check most words, but after looking them up, the second of. N'T know a lot of the sentence refers to him hoc can either. Of the sentence is understandable made me take up linguistics as a hobby an actual Roman,. Do something ] ( acc., ut ), which goes like this check most words but... From de Bello Gallico by Caesar get lost when it comes to pronouns in context oops )..., which goes like this the original question as is, so that others may find it id hoc facilius eis persuasit quod,! Usage of demonstrative pronouns ) work in the main clause find a source that lays it out a. That it was HE who persuaded them without knowing that we 're talking about Orgetorix What is the significance having. Latin made me take up linguistics as a hobby I ca n't find a source lays! Persuasit, but neither id nor hoc is masculine. I deduce that it HE.

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